Save The Manuals: Camaro Edition

"BadMotorScooter" (badmotorscooter) 02/08/2020 at 14:20 • Filed to: None

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I decided to upgrade my 2017 Camaro V6 manual to a new LT1 model, with a manual. Somebody is going to get a great car in my old V6 RS, but wow the V8 is impressive. I spec’d this car so can proudly say I added a V8 manual to the world when it may not have existed otherwise.

I know Camaro is outsold by Mustang and Challenger, but I really don’t get it. These cars are great with an excellent chassis and powertrain. I’ve always thought Mustangs sound the best but this LT1 with dual-mode exhaust might take the cake. Cold starts are fierce and it will roar in sport mode.

I should probably explain some of the Camaro-isms involved here. Because GM, in their infinite product planning wisdom, decided to name this in a not at all confusing way. See, the lower trims lines of a new Camaro are called 1LT and 2LT, (we’ll ignore 1LS because I don’t know that if that car actually exists) where a higher number prefix means more bells and whistles. It does not indicate what engine the car has though, except a 1LT or 2LT cannot have the LT1 V8. A 1LT or 2LT can only have the T4 or V6. Moving up the trim ladder bring you to the LT1 model. Yes, LT1 model... which only comes with, and is the cheapest way to get, the LT1 V8. Got that? LT1 trim equals LT1 V8, not to be confused with a 1LT which gets the LGX or T4. Now, you can get a 1LT with the 1LE track package but you cannot get an LT1 with the 1LE package, unless you mean LT1 engine, in which case you get the 1SS or 2SS trim level with the 1LE track package, which has the LT1 engine. Now, you can also move up the the ZL1 with the LT4 supercharged 6.2 engine, and optional 1LE track package, but since ZL1 1LE just sounds crazy, most Camaro nerds simply call it a ZLE, because that is much more clear.

So, a Challenger R/T Widebody Scat Pack Shaker 392 is much simpler to understand, right?

LT1 engine in a LT1 trim level. That’s not at all confusing.

Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available > BadMotorScooter 02/08/2020 at 14:38

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Not only a V8 manual but also a green V8 manual!

slipperysallylikespenguins > BadMotorScooter 02/08/2020 at 14:39

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Congrats! That green looks fantastic.

As for why it sells less than the Mustang and Challenger, its the styling. They drive amazing though. I’ve had several 4th gen Camaros and would never even consider a new one based on styling alone. That side window is comically small.

SBA Thanks You For All The Fish > BadMotorScooter 02/08/2020 at 14:45

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Wow.  That’s awesome.  So, I’ve lost track of their option structures-- can you now get the V8 (north of 450HP?) in a package below the “SS”?

dogisbadob > BadMotorScooter 02/08/2020 at 14:46

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oooo green

SBA Thanks You For All The Fish > slipperysallylikespenguins 02/08/2020 at 14:47

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Interesting.  I’ve kinda long-since felt nostalgic tug from the retro look of the Challenger and the Mustang.  Both were cool when they brought back the classic look...  but by now it just feels “2000s” to me.

412GTI > BadMotorScooter 02/08/2020 at 14:55

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Looks awesome! Haven’t seen that green before but that’s a great choice! 

slipperysallylikespenguins > SBA Thanks You For All The Fish 02/08/2020 at 14:57

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The Camaro looks cartoony and overstyled to me , like almost every GM product right now. The Mustang looks leaner. The Challenger is the only one that still looks retro to me, and it works well for them. The Challenger also has usable back seats, so that feature helps a lot for some people.

BadMotorScooter > SBA Thanks You For All The Fish 02/08/2020 at 14:59

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Yeah, that’s the LT1 trim/model  (see edit above where I try to explain the madness that is Camaro trim levels). LT1 is new for 2020 and is intended to compete with the base Mustang GT. I think the Camaro LT1 is now the cheapest new V8 pony car, undercutting Charger (is it a pony car?) but a few hundred.

someassemblyrequired > BadMotorScooter 02/08/2020 at 14:59

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Yay  V8 Manual in the Good Color

BadMotorScooter > Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available 02/08/2020 at 15:00

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I know right, rally green metallic is new for 2020 and when I saw it I was smitten. It goes from shiny green in the sun to a gray green in the dark. Love the color.

BadMotorScooter > slipperysallylikespenguins 02/08/2020 at 15:02

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Camaro gets a bad rap for visibility but you can see forward just fine! It’s the back corners that will get you though. Driving the 6th gen will force you to set your mirrors properly and when you do so it really isn’t that bad. 

ItalianJobR53 - now with added 'MERICA and unreliability > BadMotorScooter 02/08/2020 at 15:08

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Congrats!

As someone who is surrounded by a lotta enthusiast friends, driving all sorts of vehicles, I do believe the the LS-based V8 is one of the if not the best sounding engine made is recent time.

Of course, I’m biased but I bought a 3rd Gen equipped vehicle partially coz it sounds so good!

Discerning > BadMotorScooter 02/08/2020 at 15:12

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They are outsold for the same reason you didn’t post a picture of the front of the car. Jk .

Though  I 100% disagree that you can see out the front just as well as any other car. Forward visibility is terrible. The dash is too tall and the windshield too short. It was so bad that my wife got car s ick. Not nearly sick... literally sick.

slipperysallylikespenguins > BadMotorScooter 02/08/2020 at 15:16

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It sounds silly but a big factor for me is if I can rest my arm out the window when I’m driving. I tried in the Camaro and figured I’d lose circulation to that arm in 30 seconds or so. To be fair, this odd standard rules out the majority of new cars for me.

BadMotorScooter > slipperysallylikespenguins 02/08/2020 at 15:25

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I thought I was the only one that did that! Agree that you can’t really do it in the Camaro, or most new cars. Only some new trucks I find the window beltline low enough relative to the seating position to make this comfortable. I blame side crash safety regs, but I’m sure part of it is styling driven. I’ve found I can put my elbow on the window and angle my hand forward to hold the roof line - sort of a compromise. Of course, I can’t do this for long when I’m driving since I have to shift....

QCGoose > BadMotorScooter 02/08/2020 at 15:39

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Congrats! I’ll hopefully be making a similar thread with the same title in a few months.

BTW, you picked a great color. This type of green is classy as F and should be widely available instead of  the obnoxious florescent and lime greens that are popular on niche cars today for some reason.

SBA Thanks You For All The Fish > slipperysallylikespenguins 02/08/2020 at 15:51

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Yeah, reality is that I still don’t like the gunslit view from the Camaro either.

It’s kinda weird that a modern 911 (cost aside), the most hardcore “everyday” sports car still living... remains more usable than a Camaro for actual daily life.

Jarrett - [BRZ Boi] > BadMotorScooter 02/08/2020 at 15:51

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Hell yes!

SBA Thanks You For All The Fish > BadMotorScooter 02/08/2020 at 15:51

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I’m still agog at how little interior space there is, for a car SO much bigger than the first gen.

SBA Thanks You For All The Fish > BadMotorScooter 02/08/2020 at 15:54

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Interesting. Did you have an LFX in the V6 car?

Looking at one right now for a swap into a project car...

Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available > BadMotorScooter 02/08/2020 at 15:58

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Darkish c olors with a bright metallic flake that only shows up in the light are simply the best.

way2blu does a rev update > BadMotorScooter 02/08/2020 at 16:25

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Rally Green is the best color on any pony/muscle car on sale today. Also, any dark green over silver wheels is pretty much the ideal sportscar look. Props on that color choice. Green w ould have been my first choice if it was available when I got my 2.0T 1LE.

How does it feel to drive with the V8 vs the V6? I’d gone with the 4-cylinder for handling balance, but I understand the V8 gets close to the same fuel economy if driven gently. Does the extra weight of the LT1 feel noticeable compared to your previous V6?

HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles > BadMotorScooter 02/08/2020 at 17:15

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Mmmmm that green is so good. 

HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles > slipperysallylikespenguins 02/08/2020 at 17:16

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Sad but true.

Especially if you’re tall and have to slam the seat to its lowest setting. 

Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire > BadMotorScooter 02/08/2020 at 17:21

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Magnaride? Recaro’s? What other options you get?

BadMotorScooter > SBA Thanks You For All The Fish 02/08/2020 at 17:57

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The V6 was the LGX - the updated version of the DOHC 3.6 that is now used widely across GM products (Caddy, Colorado, Camaro, Blazer, etc) . It is truly a really good motor. 335hp stock in the Camaro , rev happy, and sounds really good.

BadMotorScooter > Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire 02/08/2020 at 18:02

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Nope, LT1 trim is pretty basic. It is basically the 1LT base model car with the V8 stuffed under the hood and the standard SS suspension. It gets the SS front Brembos but not the rears. LT1 doesn’t have a lot of options - have to move up to SS if you want Recaros or Mag ride options. It does have the NPP dual mode performance exhaust option and rev match (defeatable). LT1 model is the lightest V8 car and comes with standard run-flat all-seasons (245s all around) , which I actually prefer since otherwise I wouldn’t be able to drive the car right now (its 30f and light snow).

SBA Thanks You For All The Fish > BadMotorScooter 02/08/2020 at 18:02

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I’ve had the LFX in rental Impalas-- and the sound is epic.  Not sure why that engine hasn’t gotten more acclaim.

BadMotorScooter > way2blu does a rev update 02/08/2020 at 18:09

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The T4 and V6 1LEs are GREAT cars - huge value and performance. I really liked my RS V6 but admit the sound and pow er of the V8 is intoxicating. It’s still very new so haven’t really gotten on it yet but the low end torque and pull is a huge difference from the V6. Your T4 prob has a really wide torque curve so your car would probably feel more similar at low RPM. I can feel the weight in the front - it is noticeable but not a huge difference. Both my old RS V6 and the LT1 ride on 245 all-seasons which aren’t great but at least I can drive the car in the winter here in the midwest without a tire swap. 

Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire > BadMotorScooter 02/08/2020 at 18:14

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The Recaro’s, magnaride, Brembos  and other 1LE bits are optional on the LT1. Just wondering what yours has

coqui70 > way2blu does a rev update 02/08/2020 at 23:10

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Agreed that green is sexy as hell!

BadMotorScooter > Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire 02/09/2020 at 10:21

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You’re right, some of the 1LE bits can be ad hoc ordered, but not magnaride. The Recaros are $1600 and the full Brembo kit is like $3100 (it is actually a general brake upgrade kit which I think is functionally the same as the 1LE brakes). The LT1 has front Brembos standard but not the rears. My car has those standard brakes and standard seats. I did select the NPP dual mode exhaust though. I got the $200 gray wheel upgrade and all-weather floor mats - that’s it. I think the low price of the LT1 is key, otherwise I’d just step up to the SS 1LE.

way2blu does a rev update > BadMotorScooter 02/09/2020 at 10:48

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The sound of the V8 is the primary thing I’m missing in the turbo-4. It doesn’t sound much like an internal combustion engine, more like a spaceship engaging a warp drive. The mmmmMMMM of the engine and the whoooOOOSHHH of the turbo combine for very sci-fi sounds. It’s pretty muted, which makes sense in outer space, where sound doesn’t travel. But this is a car for use on the surface of this planet, and   I feel like most people expect the V8 burble and are disappointed when they can’t hear much of anything.

That said, the sci-fi vibes continue with the car’s torque delivery. The considerable turbo lag means there’s a bit of an elastic sensation when flooring the accelerator. Once the 20 PSI of boost do kick in, it rides a wave of torque from 2500-5500 rpm.

I haven’t driven a V6 or a V8, but the T4 seems to have more than enough torque for its 275-section summer tires. Driving in California, the winter isn’t such a big deal, but I’d definitely want the narrower all-season setup if I’d be seeing snow.

Thank you for sharing your LT1 here on Oppo; please post it often because that green is epic!

BadMotorScooter > way2blu does a rev update 02/09/2020 at 12:32

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I hear you! The V8 rumble and sound was a big reason I decided to make the swap. The LT1 snarls on cold start and vibrates the concrete garage floor. The big 6.2 has a deep growl and just plain sounds awesome. In fact, I think it sounds better than the C7 for reasons I cannot explain. GM did change some of the ignition maps on the LT1 for 2019 to give it more crackle and pop on decel but I wonder if they made some changes all around cuz it just sounds mean. It literall y makes me giggle when it starts. Maybe the Camaro exhaust is different - not sure.

I know what you mean with the turbo torque swell. It becomes a technique to manage turbo lag and ride the torque wave out of a turn. My current other car is a twin turbo Carrera where Porsche has implemented some reall y cool anti-lag features that keep the turbos spooled off throttle so lag is nearly imperceptible . I’ve never driven the T4 Camaro but hear it is a very strong engine with lots of capability. I had a FiST for a while and it had some lag, but was also kinda fun to figure out how to keep it in boost. It had a relatively small turbo so lag wasn’t huge.

T here are 3 main way to make power from an ICE - forced induction, displacement, and revs. Or some combination of all three, where cost goes up proportionately. Of those, my favorite is NA revs. My favorite sports car was an AP1 S2000 with 9k rpm redline. Unfortunately, high rev NA motors are quite rare now. Only Porsche, Lambo and Ferrari are really making them now and only in their big dollar supercars (GT3, 812 Superfast, Aventador). GT350 is also there but somehow not quite the same. Next I’d go to the big displacement muscle cars - Camaro, Mustang, Challenger. Of those I think Camaro is the most sports car and has the best NA engine. I’m thankful a big NA V8 paired with a 3-pedal manual in a low cost package is still available.

I kinda feel like the LT1 is under-tired with 245s all around, but on the other hand also feel that most performance cars are over-tired these days for street driving . There is somethi ng to be said for a little bit of slip. The all-seasons are not the best but also not awful performance tires and do allow driving in 12 months vs 6-7 months on summer tires in my area. I’ll take that compromise!

i86hotdogs > way2blu does a rev update 02/10/2020 at 12:51

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My vote is for the F8 Green done on FCA vehicles.